Posted on by Adam

Solar Wind erosion

How many times have I heard people fretting over the Solar Wind blowing a planet’s atmosphere away when talking about the terraforming of Mars or the Moon. People… not going to happen in a hurry. The Solar Wind is on average 5 million particles (mostly protons, just like the Sun) per cubic metre travelling at 400 km/s at Earth’s distance from the Sun – thus the flux (number passing through per square metre) is 400,000 m/s*5,000,000 /m^3 = 2E+12 protons per square metre per second. Their collective energy flux is their kinetic energy times their number flux – i.e. 1/2*(400,000)^2*(2E+12)*m(p)… where m(p) is the proton mass (1.673E-27 kg)… so we’re talking 2.68E-4 J/s. Less than 0.3 milliWatts per square metre. The sunlight is 1365 W/sq.m some 5.1 million times stronger, but qualitatively the two are quite different in how that energy is distributed. A proton slamming into an oxygen atom at 400 km/s is quite a bump. If all the momentum went from proton to atom, the atom would fly away at 25 km/s. But ions and atoms tend to collide elastically and bounce off each other. To conserve momentum and energy, the proton reverses direction and slows a bit, while the atom is flung away at high speed. But when trillions of atoms and ions are involved it’s not just one interaction – many could occur and eventually the ion might share its momentum with quite a few oxygens before escaping to space. So there’s three outcomes – one interaction between ion and atom, an even share (on average) of ion momentum, and finally an even share of ion energy. Surprisingly the first is the least efficient – an upper Venusian atmosphere some 6,200 km in radius loses just 6.4 kg/s. The second case loses 2.5 atoms (assuming 10 km/s escape speed at altitude) per ion – thus 16 kg/s. The third case sends 100 atoms into the void per ion – 640 kg/s. Sounds respectable but Venus has 4.6E+20 kg of gas to space… meaning 2.3 trillion years, 0.911 trillion years and 0.023 trillion years respectively to lose Venus’s air via the solar wind. A long time.

So why is Mars described as losing all its air in the early days? Back when the Sun was young its Wind was up to 1,000 times stronger. Mars, being smaller than Venus, would lose its air very rapidly in those days (Venus would still take billions of years in scenario 1 &2), but not now the Sun is better behaved. There are complications to this picture too – magnetic fields and ionization of the impacted atoms – but the basic picture is pretty straightforward. Solar Wind erosion is SLOW…

16 Replies to “Solar Wind erosion”

  4. Hi Lubomir

    All the public data says Mars is inhospitable. Even before spaceprobes telescopic observations showed Mars’ air was carbon dioxide and less than 10% Earth’s in density.

    Do you have a verifiable reason to think otherwise? If you invoke Hoagland or van Flandern’s claims about Cydonia I will be disappointed.

  5. No, here are my arguments:

    1. The Earths atmosphere gets in the way to analyse the Martian atmosphere and other planets as well. So that’s why are the probes launched.

    2. The probes are under the control of governmental agencies. All of the results are first sent to the “space center”, and then to the public. How can I be sure that a) the color isn’t changed and b) it’s real??? This is based on trust, right? But sometimes the trust is blindness. Think about it Adam.

    3. NASA is the agency, which explores the outer Solar System. Officialy that means only NASA holds the knowledge of the other planets that are beyond the Asteroid belt. NASA IS a monopolist! How can I trust a monopolist??? Or you can 😕

  6. Hi Lubomir

    As Japan, Europe and Russia have reached Mars via probes and haven’t reported anything different I think the “monopolistic conspiracy” grows less and less plausible all the time.

    I’m not averse to the idea of ETIs living in our Solar System – I was convinced by Chris Boyce’s argument to that effect some time ago. ETIs that have lived in Solar Space for billennia will have ways of being utterly indetectable if they so desire. Chris even concluded that some ETIs may well live amongst in human form, adopting artificial “somas” in order to observe us directly. Perhaps they have done so, and caused miracles and the like, to create religions for their own purposes or for our (arguable) benefit.

    But there really is no way of knowing any of this except by direct contact, and thus I remain a “Doubting Thomas”. ETIs might be on Mars, Ganymede or in the Kuiper Belt, and we’d never know. Since that is unknowable what more can I say, until an ETI contacts me personally?

  7. Adam,

    Because these agencies, no matter if they are American or Russian, or Japanese….. are nowthing more than a network of liers! The exist only to fool ordinary people! Even the Soviet-American race to the Moon was nothing else but a BIG farce, because the whole Cold War was created and supported by those, who gave the money and the power on the dictators! The same rullers who represend the world Banking Guild and now support both sides of any conflict! Those who make profit from arms selling, drug market, Oil economy!!!

    My arguemnts:

    1. NASA, USSR’s space program/ROSKOSMOS, JAXA, ESA and others have NOT ONCE started a program to recover the Nikola Tesla’s Free Energy generators!

    2. The same agencies have NOT ONCE supported Townsend Brown and his electrogravity research! All these Lifters today around the World are a better technology than the helicopters and airplanes together! But no NASA support!

    3. Victor Schauberger, Richard Miethe, Rudolf Schriever, Otis Carr, John Searl, John Hutchison and others have demonstradet antigravity effects, Especially Victor Schauberger and John Searl, but NO SUPPORT from NASA 😡

    4. Bob Lazar speeks of Element 115 and it’s antigravity effects, about how to fly disc-shaped crafts – not once has driven that the attention of NASA!

    5. The EmDrive
    http://www.emdrive.com/
    wich is a propulsion based on microwaves is the next prove that antigravity forces exist! Where is NASA and the others again?

    6. The “Lightcraft” of NASA was the first program of it’s kind. Now it’s closed! Lightcraft technology can be USED as Heavy Launch Vehicle! The program was canceled 😡

    7. BPP project was cut off in 2002 by NASA. And for all these years (1996-2002 (6)) the project had only 1.6 milion budget, which is laughable compared with the Shuttle program.

    BPP was far more important than anything alse at moment, but was closed. That shows how pointless is the NASA itself, how FALSE ORGANIZATION it is 😡 To ignore something that can make revolution 😡 😡 😡

    P.S. What are the UFO’s filmed during STS-48, STS-75 (Tether incident), STS-80 and others?

    Conclusion: NASA and other agencies exist to protect the Oil Economy, ignoring real important and revolutionary concepts 😡

  8. Hi Lubomir

    Emotional topics for you clearly, but let’s get back to the main point: what possible reason do you have for believing that Mars has life and is habitable?

  9. Adam,

    Computer programs have enough advanced so that any picture today can be faked, especially when it comes to such important things like life on other planets – we were left to believe that we are the only one intelligent species on this star system, and this false belief is based on faked pictures! Like I said before – organizations like NASA, ESA, ROSKOSMOS….. are laughable agencies with pointless programs, proven to be unpractical, most of all when it comes to propulsion. The arguments from above. Maybe I’ll change my mind when I get there, but that won’t happend when OFFICIALLY we still use rockets for space travel.

    And SETI is another faked program. Why? Why should we believe that radiowaves and light are one and only methods for communication? Not to mention that they are moving at the speed of c. Advanced civilizations which have space access don’t use them for sure. Why haven’t I seen ONCE a SETI program to concentrate on GravityWaves? Not once has someone worked on subspace communication. And IF there is a signal now catched by SETI, how can I be sure that they will tell us? They’ll first tell somebody from above, and when he decides, we’ll know, wen he don’t – no extraterrestrials.

  12. There is life, because you can’t prove it otherwise! Your “proof” is based on the informaction, given by NASA and the others false organizations! The same that reject Victor Schauberger’s projects 😡 and continue to build this dead end rockets, no matter if they are chemical fueled, or ion! Because if you see what are NASA’s visions about the future, even 500 years won’t be enough to colonize Sol, not to mention that Star Travel will always be non practical and sci-fi 😡

    How can I believe on their PICTURES of Mars? Like I said – there are software programs that CAN ALTER color of ANY picture! That is my prove! When Mars’s atmosphere is BLUE, it can sustain life!

    Conclusion: NASA is nothing more than a HUGE side show for the masses!!! How can I believe on their PICTURES of MARS?

  13. Lubomir

    My proof is based on pre-spaceflight astronomy which could – and did – compensate for the atmosphere. There’s no reason, no positive evidence, for believing in life on Mars, and no evidence of a conspiracy.

    Barry DiGregorio came out with the “blue sky” on Mars thing a few years ago but he’s mistaken, and has made baseless conspiracy claims, also mistaken. But all that’s irrelevant. There is NO positive evidence for life on Mars.

    Doesn’t mean there isn’t life there, but there’s no compelling reason to think that there is either.

  14. Adam,

    Until I don’t see it with my own eyes, I won’t believe you. And when still useing rockets for transportation that will never happen. And I won’t expect a propulsion revolution from NASA, because it’s whole space program is fake.

    There is NO evidence that there is no life beyond Mars. Because, again, “evidence” is based on NASA’s probes 😉

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